The condition for peace is that, firstly, human rights must be applied, which means everyone has the right to return to their property, and to have their freedom. Then, if people want to live under this umbrella, with no Zionism, no occupation, no apartheid, no war crimes, no genocide, they are like anybody else. When I give my talks in London, at university and other places, I say: why don't Jews live in Palestine like Jews live in London? They didn't kill English people, they didn't come and take their land? Why don't they live like that? Why don't they live in Palestine like they live in New York? They live by the law of the land.
I want to add one more thing regarding this knowledge that we created. We have proven [these facts about Palestine]. I repeat again, I stand to be corrected, but I have not seen any Israelis or Zionists dispute any of the facts represented. So if that's the case, why don't we plan for this? We know which refugees are from which village and they can return there. We charted roadmaps in which the distance from villages to camps is never more than 30 or 40 kilometers. Refugees in Lebanon can walk home, and in Gaza too. Literally, they can walk.
And by the way, just a footnote, when people in the West say hostages should be freed, I agree. I agree they should be freed. But there are 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza held hostage for 76 years. 27,000 days. They come from 247 villages and cities. We have maps of them. They should be set free, they should return. And this is the answer we offer to people when they mention the kibbutz hostages. Some of the hostages in Gaza or held in Gaza are living on my own land. I was born in Ma’in. This is my father's land. So we have to take it over. When Palestinians return, they will find their villages destroyed. That’s alright because we have enough engineers and architects to recreate them.
Eight years ago, we started a competition among young Palestinian architects for their graduation project. We said, “We'll give you one Palestinian village and your job is to redesign its reconstruction completely.” We have an inventory of 550 villages, and they pick one. They have to present a design for reconstruction of the village. So far, we have 12 universities participating every year. At the moment, a total of 270 young artists have participated. We have an international British jury. Every year, they decide on the top three designs. And every year, we reward the best design. These young people are marvelous; they already finished the complete reconstruction of 60 villages, divided by area from the North Mountain area to the coastline, and so on. This is done by young people who have never even seen Palestine. But they have ingenuity. They have the data, they have the heritage. The jury told me, “We are amazed! How could these young people redesign Palestinian villages with the same heritage, but with 10 times more people, and with new amenities like the internet and all that?”
So to recap the story, not only did they take our land, but they took the documentation. We can recover this documentation. Moreover, we can create from this documentation the map of the future. And I hope the young people will carry this on through your center and your ability to help them.
“The myth that Palestine is a land without people turned out to not really be a myth. The genocide idea was created very early on, that the Zionists would like to make a Palestine without people. And that's the definition of genocide.”
Ghada Dimashk: Dr. Salman, we have the atlas here, the one you were talking about. Of course, you have seen the picture of the Israeli soldier sitting on the bench holding your atlas, I think mocking it. What would you say about this?
Dr. Salman Abu Sitta: That picture of the Israeli soldier is actually in the house of a relative of mine. When the soldier came to destroy and rob the house, he found this atlas. Now, I don't know what his motives were. First of all, he was curious about this atlas. I was hoping that when he read that atlas, he would say, “I am a foreigner, this is their country, and that's proof.” Now, whether he was mocking that or not isn’t clear. He might think, “it is your country, but we took it.” But if he has any inkling of intelligence, he would say, “I am taking the land of those people. And this is the proof.”
Ghada Dimashk: I have seen along your collection that you have a great interest in maps. And you have told me some stories about the way you have collected those maps. You told me that some of those maps are inaccessible. Only you have a photocopy of it and at the moment no one can access this map. It's really important for us as archivists to know how you got these maps. Have you ever used unofficial ways to retrieve some of the Palestinian archives?
Dr. Salman Abu Sitta: Well, you're asking me to reveal something I would like to keep hidden. For one thing, when I started to collect these maps, I had to go about it like a reader. I'm not a government. I cannot order them from any government archives. And so the first thing I could try was going to all these libraries in many countries and be friendly with the librarian. First I take them to lunch, I give them presents, and that kind of thing.
One time in the United Nations library, when I was trying to get the armistice maps, to which the access was restricted, I connived with a friend who helped me. We invited the librarian to lunch and [while] he was away for an hour, we photocopied the maps. But there is something more interesting than that. I learned that the British, before they left, took many aerial photos of Palestine in 1945. And I read somewhere that there is this inventory of aerial photographs because the British had a sordid history in Palestine. They probably decided during the Second World War to take aerial photos of all of Palestine. I didn’t know where they were, but finally, I found them. It is in the library of the Royal Air Force, in a village somewhere in the west side of England. And when I tried to reach that, it said Joint Forces, which means that the Air Force can only deal and exchange information with similar Air Forces in other countries…
So I wrote a letter and I said, I need two photographs of someplace, which was my birthplace. There was no reply. And then someone said to remind them. I thought I’d tell them I am a planner and I wanted to know this piece of land as a planner, how it was and how it is. I just need four photographs of my land. Then I dialed a telephone number. A person, a corporal replied to me, and he asked, “Why do you want these?” I said, as a planner, I'm comparing the aerial photos from before until now. He said, “I'll call my superior officer.” I was waiting for probably 20 seconds or one minute, but it felt like an eternity. What is he going to say? He came back and he said, “Yes, but we need a letter from the country controlling this land, which is Israel, of course.” I said,“ Look, this has nothing to do with Israel. This is a British Aerial survey, you took it and you are the owner of this.”
Ghada Dimashk: You have faced a lot of obstacles, and you were sometimes not allowed to retrieve your own archive, your own history, about your own land.
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